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Atheism vs. Theism: A Casual Conversation - playtunez.com
Published: 3 years ago By: Underlings

By: UnderlingsPublished: 3 years ago

4, 485 views

138 Likes   6 Dislikes

This is a Skype conversation between me and a commenter on one of my videos (uploaded with his permission). This isn't a heated debate, but instead more of a casual conversation between an atheist and a liberal theist who was curious about the justification for my atheism. I use only a couple graphics for this video, so think of it more as a podcast.

If anyone else would like to discuss a topic with me, I'm open to the idea, as long as we can figure out a workable time and focus in on a topic. Let me know in the comments section if you're interested.

Justin Tracey
'Justin Tracey' 1 month ago
This guest is not intelligent enough to partake in a conversation like this.
Sammy Sam
'Sammy Sam' 2 months ago
This young man was raised around the christian belief, but seems to lean towards the agnostic (deist) theist. That's just me. Although he reported his car stolen, a year and a half layer, he questioned the experience during prayer and 12 hours later received call that his car was identified during a traffic stop. He ties that to personal experience but says it can't be conjured up to luck, yet he still reported the car stolen. When would the discovery of the car not be related to a higher power influence? When do you say it was god or it was chance?
Roger Foster
'Roger Foster' 11 months ago
A theist can't judge theistic morality, unless theist already understands morality. Cart before horse.
Richard Cramer
'Richard Cramer' 1 year ago
Underling, I wouldn't count Josephus as source. A famous christian (don't remember who) wrote a letter complaining about the only problem he had with Josephus' Jewish Histories is that he doesn't mention Jesus in them. Low and behold the infamous Jesus paragraph forgery suddenly appeared. New thought- if the theist is only interested in the old testament learning Hebrew might be useful, but if he wants to learn the untranslated new testament he should learn old Greek.
Richard Cramer
'Richard Cramer' 1 year ago
I think the theist meant C. S. Lewis the famous author and christian, not C.K. Lewis or Lewis C.K. the famous comedian.
JONATHAN KISER
'JONATHAN KISER' 1 year ago
I really enjoyed this conversation- it was really great that neither of the commenters used negative tones and words/inflections. I think it was possible because the Christian was from a Liberal Christianity background- if he were a Biblical Literalist/Fundamentalist I think this would have become something else entirely. Great job Underlings.
Queen of the Grandenites
it was very hard to listen to this debate because this guy couldn't verbally express himself well and it was very frustrating. but I made it through
tothedirtwhenidie
'tothedirtwhenidie' 2 years ago
Well?... It's done now..... Can't undo it.....
YY4Me133
'YY4Me133' 2 years ago
There's unspeakable suffering going on all over the world, every second of every day, but this guy thinks his god ignored all the people who prayed for an end to that suffering, but answered his prayer about getting his car back? Does he really think that if a god actually existed it'd ignore infants being raped to death, but think his wanting his car back warranted its attention? I just can't get over how self-centered theists can be.
mistor Whiskers
'mistor Whiskers' 2 years ago
I'd like to see a follow up after this guy finishes his studies.
millgiass
'millgiass' 2 years ago
How can Christians not believe that Catholics are not real Christians when all other sects of Christianity branched off of Catholicism or a branch that did break off of them? Before that it was all under ground cults and pagans.
Maredias Borumor
'Maredias Borumor' 2 years ago
One interesting thing about Alexander the Great. The first written records about him were written 250 years after his death.
pauldhoff
'pauldhoff' 2 years ago
They guy says not to cherry-pick, but when it is point out that he is wrong, he cherry-picks.
pauldhoff
'pauldhoff' 2 years ago
There were no Jewish slaves in Egypt.
pardh1961
'pardh1961' 2 years ago
At 40 minutes into this discussion the young theist says that Richard Dawkins does not claim to be agnostic about gods and implies that Dawkins is sure that there is no God. That is not true. I've seen Dawkins state an uncertainty several times and in his book "The god Delusion" he defines a scale of belief from 1 to 7, where 7 is certainty that there is no God, then places his own belief at level 6 (see page 51). Most atheists, including Richard Dawkins, are not SURE that there is no God, they are open to the possibility pending verifiable evidence, which seems within the ability of an all-powerful loving father.
Pebble In A Pond
'Pebble In A Pond' 2 years ago
If a Creator/God exists, it does not matter what we think of Him/It. Smoke screens confusing the main issue of whether there is proof of a Creator with whether that Creator meets all humans ideals of the 'perfect' God in their tiny minds...are for fools. If you are not a fool and want to focus on the main issue watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hO0A4gPv2o
ΣToxange The 42nd Oxymoron?
I agree with everything you say but how do you explain demonic possessions ?
Jean ii
'Jean ii' 2 years ago
Awesome to listen to this young man wrestling with faith, gently and with such a good heart, challenging "Mr. Underlings," who is responsive, patient, kind, and understanding. Heartwarming exchange. (I'm 35 minutes in right now.)
Eyes wide Open
'Eyes wide Open' 2 years ago
Hope to see a new video soon, hope everything is oké. Check this one out The BiBULL Study part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ6n8yOeNJI i wonder what you think
bo smith
'bo smith' 2 years ago
hope you check my comments, i put a good book/movie idea there- i think you would be intrigued....
Science and Truth 2 Rock
The theist is an idiot. Face to face is face to face. If the stinking God wanted to say anything else, i.e. "While wearing a mask", than have that put in there, otherwise, it's face to face and nothing more.
Xander Patten
'Xander Patten' 2 years ago
INCORRECT: Humans are *JUST* incredibly complex highly evolved arrangements of chemicals capable of philosophy, art, and emotion. CORRECT: Humans *ARE* incredibly complex highly evolved arrangements of chemicals capable of philosophy, art, and emotion.
bo smith
'bo smith' 2 years ago
excellent videos... please check my video. bo smith
Jake Wixon
'Jake Wixon' 2 years ago
+underlings what backround song did you use in your God is evil series
ecisme10
'ecisme10' 2 years ago
I appreciate the calm tones of the discussion but I am rather disappointed in the Theist lack of knowledge on the subject of the bible and Christianity in general. The special pleading is hard to take. I'm at 30minutes in this video and I have to stop because I'm just too frustrated I can't sit down with him and teach him critical thinking skills. I may, in the future come back to watch the rest.
Taylor Remund
'Taylor Remund' 2 years ago
+underlings have you ever done a video on mormons?
savcob
'savcob' 2 years ago
Here is one point from me (4th generation atheist) since we can not observe god directly, nor we can prove or disprove his existence, means that in any moment of time god exists and it doesn't at the same time= Schrodinger's god and because of this the debate has no point. Second Science does not concern itself with the existence of god and science is not on a quest to prove or disprove god. Science studies Nature and applies that knowledge for the well-being of all living creatures. If at the end of the day Science proves that god exists that would mean we study the magic of god..still no point to debate for or against god.
paisteboy
'paisteboy' 2 years ago
Underlings was providing better arguments for his guest then the guest could for himself.
Underlings
'Underlings' 2 years ago
+Philosopher8659 Wow, that's some convoluted logic! :-) But it's specious, since a fluctuating eternal quantum void could account for the universe and life, no god necessary. You can prove that the CONCEPT of God exists, but that means nothing, since the concept of no gods exists, and the imagination isn't bound to only what exists in reality (imaginary concepts don't have to make sense). And since all credible evidence indicates minds are an emergent property of brains (which are dependent on material space-time), and thought is defined by a change in material space-time, the concept of a disembodied, eternal, unchanging, all knowing mind doesn't make sense.
Philosopher8659
'Philosopher8659' 2 years ago
Actually, God can be proven, however, it is not the God of mythology. Every word in the Subject Naming Convention is defined by the Predicate Naming Convention, which itself is not defined it is learned by perception. see biological fact and the works of Plato. Metaphor works then just like a mathematical equation. You take a word, say God, and define it through its predicates, i.e. only what is knowable, or again causality. When you can do that, you find out that the Metaphors of the Judeo-Christian Scripture define God and does it in a provable manner. God is not a person, an anthropomorphic entity, but the only power a mind has, Linguistic Functionality. That is why it is written in that text, and in several places, that it is sealed to man's understanding until a particular time in human history, and that those seals can only be loosened by a very specific key. That key is a linguistic puzzle. See; Revelations 5. https://youtu.be/I8ef8aWAu9k If language is, and it is, the only power a mind has, then man is provably made in the image of God, but what that means must follow the principles of language, not proto-language of current human usage.
jesse botello
'jesse botello' 2 years ago
There is scientific proof that God exits
Jack Barman
'Jack Barman' 2 years ago
Dawkins is not a gnostic. He even made a 1-7 scale and said he was a 6!
tony anthony
'tony anthony' 2 years ago
Less elegant but accurately more descriptive way to put video heading:- "A Casual conversation: Atheism schooled Theism".
Eternal Cycles
'Eternal Cycles' 2 years ago
modern humans have a frontal lobe and the ability for abstract thought and the ability to create fictional models and scenarios, adapted for the survival of the species. God might just be an unnecessary bi-product of that evolutionary trait.
Paul J
'Paul J' 2 years ago
This boy is so thick. He is barely capable of speech. Half an hour was enough.
Paxmax
'Paxmax' 3 years ago
it was a friendly discussion, good discussion, nice pace and flow... the only problem is that y'all agree too much =o) Is it even possible to do this with a >insert religious text< literalist? They tend to lean towards incessant fervor in their attitude, making discourse hard and/or just plain unpleasant.
garudagal23
'garudagal23' 3 years ago
there was no moses so slavery for the jews never happened--archeologists and historians find no evidence of him so his ideas and activities are moot.second--slavery?? if god was all good then he would have said slavery is wrong always, rape is wrong for all--this christain tries to weasel out of what his god is like and how bad his god has behaved--typical Xian bubble thinking that required you not to examine your beliefs or pretend you are but you won't let yourself truly see them (long ago I did it too so I know all about it)this guy should go on the stage with that tap dance routine he's got to avoid facing what Underlings is saying about seeing god face to face---too ridiculous
garudagal23
'garudagal23' 3 years ago
ravi Zacharias does not have good arguments and has lied about his degrees---he's not a real dr of anything, just an honorary degree so the argument based on his thinking is not worth much since he mostly argues strawmen and other fallacies. And I'm not a fan of the catholics, but they ARE christains whether fundamentalists think so or not--another fallacy--no true Scotsman argument. Also hitler was a christain just cause this guy doesn't want to acknowledge that doesn't deny that fact. But christains denying facts is to be expected if not outright lying is always a go to tool for any of them.
r1pbuck
'r1pbuck' 3 years ago
Sorry...I could only manage the first 90 seconds or so. However the theist sounds like a dope, and as usual, the atheist sounds like he knows a LOT more about religion than most theists. Bored now...
Sines314
'Sines314' 3 years ago
Very nice conversation, I'd like to speak with more people like your guest myself.
Vargass55
'Vargass55' 3 years ago
I applaud his desire to help the unfortunate and understand the injustice of being taken advantage of. I also understand that he may not be rich and how the loss of a car (though seemingly not too important from his actions) would be a painful experience. When I was at university I did not have a car and had to walk to my night shift job. In order to pay for my education I had to work 10 hour a night, four days a week and was still barely eating. In short, he has it better than I did and infinitely better than half the people on this earth.
Vargass55
'Vargass55' 3 years ago
I agree that this was "civil," but I would not have been so nice. I find it disgusting that some privileged kid in a rich country, attending university, has his own car and has extra cash to 'help" a homeless person would see it as proof of a god when the thief who stole his car is caught by police and gets his car back. As Sam Harris pointed out, nearly 9 million children die ever year before they reach the age of 5. In the "less than 12 hours" it took this god to answer his prayer, over 12,000 children died. The overwhelming majority of these children had religious parents who were pleading and praying that their kids survive. The prayer that was answered? The one that got a guy at university his ride back. Now he can drive to the next kegger. Simply reprehensible.
bonnie43uk
'bonnie43uk' 3 years ago
As the theist said at the end "This was a great conversation". It's a shame there aren't more of these types of conversations where both sides are able to put their view across without being ridiculed or shouted down. Really enjoyed it Underlings.
itsasin1969
'itsasin1969' 3 years ago
4:15,, somebody doesn't know what an Atheist is. I'm not sure this is worth the time.
CosmosFiddler
'CosmosFiddler' 3 years ago
Well done.
proslice56
'proslice56' 3 years ago
A quick reference to JesusNeverExisted and bang! Kenneth Humphreys explains it in depth.
Nektulos Elf
'Nektulos Elf' 3 years ago
Yay EverQuest! Good discussion! Thanks.
Kind Drunk
'Kind Drunk' 3 years ago
nice talk...would like to have more of these...good job
Enkidu Five
'Enkidu Five' 3 years ago
I find it interesting you chose "choking the Hobbit" as the thumbnail for this. Before anyone asks, yes, that was a filthy euphemism.
UatuOmega
'UatuOmega' 3 years ago
A civil discussion? About religion and belief systems?! On the internet!?!!? I guess god does exist. ;)
OverLordGoldDragon
'OverLordGoldDragon' 3 years ago
K so I'm gonna carry through with this as a background while writing my lab report (a no-brainer). I'll respond to the most interesting sections here - and edit the comment throughout to not lose it (I have a class soon): 4:12 - Yes there are atheists and yes most of them cannot justify their atheism - only agnostic-atheism (not even that). I, however, can justify my atheism towards any religion involving a personal deity - Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, etc. So yes, "gnostic" atheists exist, and we (or at least I) can prove with a 100% certainty* that God does NOT exist. Nevertheless, such certainty is not at all required to disprove religion itself - agnostic-atheism is enough.  6:02 - The God claim is NOT a negative. God has very specific definitions that make him what he is. Noone's denying the possibility of the existence of higher powers - but that does not mean GOD. First, a personal God, as defined by most religions: (1) Grants an afterlife (2) Has a relationship with you (Grants prayers, Judges you) (3) Is The Creator - of the Universe, of Mankind (already disproven). Each can be disproved individually - and, if at least one is definitely proven wrong, God is proven wrong (the implications of any of the three being false are too great to simply continue on believing). Of course, with (3), the job is half-way done. Unfortunately, all I can say about (3) is that God is redundant - the "God of the Gaps." Nevertheless, I cannot prove the Universe did not have a "Creator." (1) Can disprove. (2) Can disprove.  9:56 - Then they're not "strong" atheists. It is easy to simply claim the idea ridiculous and play the atheist card, but to really JUSTIFY atheism - as in disproving God, yes, that's hard. But of course, then, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the true God - HE BOILED FOR YOUR SINS!  13:30 - Some of us never do because our parents perpetually reinforce the idea that they are an absolute authority. Say... China; Japan; Islam ... 14:25 - Oh boy I see where this is going. Good luck! 15:08 - O RLLY!? I call this a Mouth-slip. Can't recall the last time I saw a gay person want to be stoned. 17:50 - You think Hitler is bad? LMAO http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EMX6tBCyhJI/T7-55BE-g-I/AAAAAAAAGuM/-BWyrOlDBYI/s1600/gods-solution-vs-hitlers-solution-atheism-gnu-new-funny-lol-positive-strong-agnosticism-theism-religion.jpg 20:31 To be continued... *100% in a sense that if I turned out to be wrong, everything I know about reality would be false. Nevertheless, we all make at least a million assumptions just to get out of bed - i.e. we're not in a matrix; our memories weren't implanted to us by pink unicorns; 1+1 does indeed equal 2; ... The problem with the theists is, that God is a truth as fundamental as to mathematicians 1+1=2. Yet, one can be disproved externally. This is the key - we don't resort to proof by definition - i.e. 'X is right because Y says so.'
ErgoCogita
'ErgoCogita' 3 years ago
The "inkling of something is there or higher purpose" which he mentions, I think, is a misplaced attribution. Not that those feelings don't exist, just that those feelings are a reaction to ignorance. It's not knowledge or understanding which elicits that response, it is the very opposite. Ignorance makes people uncomfortable. And if a comforting narrative is to be sought after, what better than one which holds you and the rest of humanity central to it? Enter theism.
OverLordGoldDragon
'OverLordGoldDragon' 3 years ago
Bah I wish I was a theist so I could Skype with Mr. Awesome :/
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